Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1241



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
Re: Drive DestructionSequencing
re: Updated GT 5 dTon Shuttles
Re: Drive DestructionSequencing
RE: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)
Re: Drive DestructionSequencing
Re: Space Opera?
Re: "new" critter
Re: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: "new" critter 
Space Computers
Re: Army missions...
Re: Supporting our game
Re: Copyright Issues with SJG
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE Army Missions
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1240

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:13:28 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

COUGH!!  CHOKE!!  Asphyxiate on my Diet Pepsi!  Uh, that's some pretty stiff
company (hah!  dual meaning! :) you've grouped me with there!  I think I've
a wee bit further to go t' get grouped with that caliber of classical
artist!  You wanna' see and OUTSTANDING Lightwave artist?  Check out Howard
Swindell's examples that are at www.flay.com.  WOW!!!!!  I'm just a big fish
in a reasonably small pond ;)  I working on getting Andy Akins up there
though, and soon Mark Cook.  Stay tuned!

Best,
Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Terry
> Carlino
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:04 AM
> To: Traveller Mailing list
> Subject: RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
>
>
> >'S also why the one image that IS the same is plastered with "Test Image!
> >Not for duplication or redistribution!  Material Copyright c
> 1999 by Steve
> >Jackson Games.  All rights reserved".  Actually, it's not truly the final
> >version at that as they had me remove a contrail and un-blur the
> background
> >ships.
> >
> >You can see the shot at
> >http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/starports_co
> ver.htm as
> >I'd never posted that link on my site.
>
> WOW! Picasso, Rembrante, DeGraff.
>
> Terry C
>
> All that is Gold does not glitter
> Not all who travel are lost
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:16:33 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Drive DestructionSequencing

> And a fusion reactor should be no more capable of going "boom" than 
> a coal fired powerplant. In both cases given *hours* of preparation,
> you could rig up a blast, but it wouldn't be easy.

I am a Chemical Engineer - which means I design chemical plants for a living.  
Most plants I design have large steam-raising systems, comparable to a large 
power station.  Assuming I wanted to set one of these to "self destruct" I 
could rig a plant like this to blow with remarkably limited preparation.  The 
main time would be taken up in walking between various key points:

(1) Go to store for relief valve "gags" (legal requirement for system testing)
(2) Climb to top of steam drum
(3) Fit "gags" onto relief valves (most of these fit over like a metal condom)
(4) Close key high pressure valves (e.g. vent and pressure-ruducing station).  
Note that this is unlikely to be noticed as all the steam is passing to a huge 
turbine.  The valves I close are the ones that normally protect the system in 
the event of a turbine trip.
(5) Trip the turbine [numerous methods]
(6) You now have one or two minutes before the major pressure vessels rupture.

If I wanted more time, I would probably open a lube oil drain.  It will take 
(say) 20 minutes for the oil level to fall to the point where the turbine would 
trip.  The lube oil system has only rudimentary instruments and the chances of 
someone identifying what I had done in time is quite small. [FX: pirate notices 
a pool of liquid on the floor.  Bending down he rubs some between his fingers 
and sniffs it.  The distinctive, to an Engineer, smell of jump coil coolant 
means nothing to the pirate, and he fails to raise the alarm ....]

On most chemical plants I could instead arrange to release a large cloud of 
flammable gas and then then ignite this via a choice of methods.

On many plants with a large furnace using liquid fuel, setting up a large fuel 
leak that will ignite when it reaches the furnace is very easy.

If I were Chief Engineer on a Starship I am sure I could rig up similar 
disasters tht would wreck the drives / whole ship, with a time delay of my 
choice.  The key step is to override safety systems (which on current 
technology needs an override for testing purposes).

I should also point out that it is possible to design around these sabotage 
routes, but this is only done on things like nuclear plants (and cyanide, 
you'll like to know) where the cost vs. safety equation is different.



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:45:42 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: re: Updated GT 5 dTon Shuttles

>As John pointed out, there doesn't appear to be any fresher 
>capability included with passengers seats.

>I hope this batch is better :)

As in: better get a bucket? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:47:33 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Re: Drive DestructionSequencing

>> How long would the destruct sequence need to be set for a starship with
>> size "X" engineering and an escaping crew's manuver drive "Y" ??

>Civilian power plants won't _have_ a destruct sequence, making the issue irrelevant.

If the ship has a missile launcher then the missiles would make fine scuttling
charges. Standard missiles are already fitted with timed self-destruct devices. 

For a really serious self destruct you could also fire a t-plate
missile at yourself (straight out for half an hour, then straight back down the
laser guide signal, as the ship wont be manoeuvring there will be no chance of a
miss and it's very easy to change your mind). 

You also better make sure the ship is in a stable orbit or heading out of
system, otherwise you might be in danger of breaking the near-c-rock accords.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:28:35 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)

Cool beans!
Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Keith
> Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 2:24 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)
> 
> 
> At 07:58 AM 10/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
> >
> >Hey Keith, since you're the "web monkey" (love that term BTW :) 
> for SJG, do
> >you think you could see about getting my last name's spelling 
> correct on the
> >"Far Trader" page?  They blew it for the print run unless it goes 2nd
> >edition, but it'd be nice if the web was corrected ;)
> 
> Whoops!  Sorry about that!  It's fixed now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> 
> Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
> Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
> Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com
> 
>  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
> _________________________________________________________ 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:36:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Drive DestructionSequencing

Simon Early writes:
> 
> If I were Chief Engineer on a Starship I am sure I could rig up similar 
> disasters tht would wreck the drives / whole ship, with a time delay of my 
> choice.  The key step is to override safety systems (which on current 
> technology needs an override for testing purposes).

Wrecking the ship is easy, as long as you have power; given the power output of standard traveller fusion reactors, all you need to do is disable some circuit breakers and reroute power for something which consumes a lot of power (drives, weapons, whatever) into the electronics.  A low quality version of this can be set up in under a minute, being thorough would take quite a bit longer.  For something a bit showier, overload the capacitors -- use the rules for an overloaded black globe generator.  If you don't have power, scuttling the ship is a bit harder, but as long as you have both life support and fuel, it isn't that hard, it just requires a hydrogen leak and a proper spark.  If you have missiles, they can reasonably be detonated; depending on what sort of missiles they are, this ranges from minor damage to complete destruction.

Aside from all those, simply locking the autopilot on a collision course with a large object will do the trick, though it is rather obvious.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:39:29 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

At 04:56 AM 10/21/99 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> There were quite a handful made in the late seventies/early eighties as Star
>> Wars knockoffs. The Last Starfighter is one. Ice Pirates another. There was
>> one with George Peppard, and the guy who played the Man from Uncle and the
>> actor who played John Boy from the Waltons loosely based on the Seven
>> Samurai, I can't remember the name.
>
>"Battle Beyond the Stars". It's a classic. Bad, but fun.

	Is that the one where they flat-out swiped clips of the "Vipers"
from Battlestar Galactica?

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:39:27 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: "new" critter

At 04:44 AM 10/21/99 PST, you wrote:
>>         So you do it often enough to get one each viable male and
female,
>> who make it to sexual maturity, and work on "natural" progeny,
>> probably via artificial insemination and elephant host-mothers
until
>> you get enough offspring you can try the standard way.
>
>They've got *one* Mammoth body. It'll be male or female. Any clones
>will *all* be the same sex as the body.

	I didn't mean all from the one body ... IIRC there have been many
mammoth finds, some in fairly decent shape.

>Any offspring are going to be inbred like you wouldn't believe.
*All*
>their genes will be from *one* individual. 

	Yeah, well, I didn't say it would restore a full wild population.
Now, what you do is inbreed like crazy, toss in a dash of radiation
for some forced change, and keep culling the ones that don't work out
("McMammoth burger to go").

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:39:25 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

At 06:27 PM 10/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Is this the official SJG position: "We already have a forum, so we
don't
>>need to reference the TML, thank you"?
>
>One key difference with the Pyramid playtest site is that everyone who goes
>there has agreed to abide by a non-disclosure agreement, something that is
>not a feature of TML membership.
>
>I understood that this is as much to protect SJG from "you stole my idea"
>lawsuits as anything else. It's the same reason that many publishing
>companies have the "anything you submit becomes our property" clause in
>their submissions guidelines.  If someone publishes a whole bunch of
>designs on the TML, then SJG publishes very similar ones, that person could
>accuse SJG of stealing their work. If the author (in this case Chris)
>hasn't read the messages then theft hasn't occured (just plain old
>simultaneous discovery).  Which is why Chris won't be reading the
starship
>messages here.

	As an example of this, Linux Journal just discovered that an article
they bought was actually published on the next years ago by somebody
other than the purported author. The plagiarist's response? "Gee, I
guess you caught me."

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:39:23 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

At 09:17 PM 10/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>SPLURK?!? Please tell me where I can buy this book!

	James Wertz and Wiley J. Larson, "Space Mission Analysis and
Design," 1999, Microcosm Press/Kluwer Academic Publishers

 	Microcosm Press
	2377 Crenshaw Boulevard, Suite 350, Torrance, CA 90501

	Kluwer Academic Publishers
	101 Philip Drive, Norwell, MA 02061

	ISBN 1-881883-10-8 (paperback, acid-free paper)
	ISBN 0-7923-5901-1 (hardback, acid-free paper)

	I bought my copy directly from Microcosm, in person, before they had
finished unpacking all the boxes. Their bookstore is about the size
of my bedroom, and they probably don't have more than 30 or 40
different titles, but every single one is pure rocket juice.

Table of contents (920+ pages):

	1. The Space Mission Analysis and Design Process

	2. Mission Characterization

	3. Mission Evaluation

	4. Requirements Definition

	5. Space Mission Geometry

	6. Introduction to Astrodynamics

	7. Orbit and Constellation Design

	8. The Space Environment and Survivability

	9. Space Payload Design and Sizing

	10. Spacecraft Design and Sizing

	11. Spacecraft Subsystems
		.1 Attitude Determination and Control
		.2 Telemetry, Tracking, and Command
		.3 Command and Data Handling
		.4 Power
		.5 Thermal
		.6 Structures and Mechanisms
		.7 Guidance and Navigation

	12. Space Manufacture and Test

	13. Communications Architecture

	14. Mission Operations

	15. Ground System Design and Sizing

	16. Spacecraft Computer Systems

	17. Space Propulsion Systems

	18. Launch Systems

	19. Space Manufacturing and Reliability

	20. Cost Modeling

	21. Limits on Mission Design

	22. Design of Low-Cost Spacecraft

	23. Applying the Space Mission Analysis and Design

	App. A. Mass Distribution for Selected Satellites
	App. B. Astronautical and Astrophysical Data
	App. C. Elliptical Orbit Equations
	App. D. Spherical Geometry Formulas
	App. E. Universal Time and Julian Dates
	App. F. Units and Conversion Factors

>William
>
>
>
>>>I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that
time
>> it
>>>was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
>>>training kits from the 70s).
>>
>>  My copy of SMAD* is at work, but it lists some. The only one I
>> recall off the top of my head is the Rad6000--a rad-hardened,
space
>> rated version of IBM's R/6000 processor; 32-bit running at (IIRC)
>> 33MHz. I know there are several other 32-bit CPUs currently being

	

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:39:22 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

At 09:17 PM 10/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>>In mail you write:
>>>I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that
time
>> it
>>>was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
>>>training kits from the 70s).
>>
>>  My copy of SMAD* is at work, but it lists some. The only one I
>> recall off the top of my head is the Rad6000--a rad-hardened,
space
>> rated version of IBM's R/6000 processor; 32-bit running at (IIRC)
>> 33MHz. I know there are several other 32-bit CPUs currently being
>> offered or in works (even rumors of somebody trying to port the
>> Pentium to a more resistant technology).

	A brief selection from SMAD:

	SWRI 1750A, 16 bits, up to 512K, 1 MIP, 10 KRad hardness, used on
DS-1

	SWRI SC-5 (80C386/387), 32 bits, 320K, 0.6 MIPS, 10 KRad hardness,
used on RADARSAT

	Honeywell GVSC (1750A), 16 bits, up to 512 K, 1-3 MIPS, 1 MRad
hardness, used on NEAR and Clementine

	Lockheed Martin Rad6000 (IBM R/6000), 32 bits, up to 16G, 10-20
MIPS, 100KRad hardness, used on Mars Pathfinder

	As you can see, there's a fair variety out there. Actual selection
for a specific mission depends on many factors: how much processing
do you need, what kind of environment will you be in, how much
additional shielding can you fit, how much money do you have, what
heritage software do you plan to reuse, what processors are you
already familiar with, ...

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:39:21 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

At 07:48 PM 10/20/99 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> At 06:44 PM 10/19/99 PST, you wrote:
>>>In mail you write:
>>>I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that
time
>> it
>>>was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
>>>training kits from the 70s).
>>
>>         My copy of SMAD* is at work, but it lists some. The only
one I
>> recall off the top of my head is the Rad6000--a rad-hardened,
space
>> rated version of IBM's R/6000 processor; 32-bit running at (IIRC)
>> 33MHz. I know there are several other 32-bit CPUs currently being
>> offered or in works (even rumors of somebody trying to port the
>> Pentium to a more resistant technology).
>
>Is that one of the ones they "hardened" by embedding the chip in a
>block of lead? :-)

	Not quite. More a matter of moving to a different semiconductor
technology, plus I suppose a few other tricks.

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:37:27 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net>
Subject: Re: "new" critter 

>>Of course, they've still got the problem of the DNA being from an
>>adult, and thus limited in the number of divisions before old age
>sets
>>in. That's what's happening to Dolly.
>
> So you do it often enough to get one each viable male and female,
>who make it to sexual maturity, and work on "natural" progeny,
>probably via artificial insemination and elephant host-mothers until
>you get enough offspring you can try the standard way.


Why not just wait until the fertilized egg has divided a few times, treat it
with telomerase (to bring the telomeres back up to their full length and
thereby bringing the cell division limit back up to normal for a newborn)
and let it grow to adulthood without the early onset of aging diseases?

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:53:48 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Space Computers

As a final note, those who are interested can check out
http://www.lmco.com/manassas/space/html/brochures.html for
information on the Rad6000, their new Rad750 PowerPC chip, and
various other stuff. Other manufacturers likely have similar stuff,
but I only had the energy for one search.

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:26:26 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Army missions...

> From: "The Roc" 
> Conscription never came to the Australian military until Vietnam.  

I'm pretty sure that there was conscription into the Militia (_not_ the
AIF) during WWII.  I'll check today, when I wander past the town library. 
If I'm wrong, I'll let you know.

<silly comments follow>

> The Australian Armed Forces are basically a reactionary force 

Da, Tovarisch!

> Okay, this is the 90's (well, nearly the 22nd century), 

Um, nearer to the 21st?  Still, you've brought visions to my mind...

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:40:33 -0700
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game

On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:52:26 -0300, Michel Vaillancourt
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>

>        I know exactly what you mean.  Very recently, I was obliged to
>re-write the entire drug-design system for Cyberpunk 2020...  one of my
>players worked out on paper a speed-heal design that invalidated the
>existance of *hospitals*... 

Wow, you didn't do this until now?  I got as far as "Smash" (future beer,
with effects far more debilitating than real beer) before chucking the
whole thing as broken due to Mr. Pondsmith's heavy-handed sermonizing
("Drugs are Bad, Just Say No").  Oh well, it's his game; if he wants to put
deliberately crippled rules in it to discourage RL drug use, that's his call.

On a somewhat related note to the problem you found, a MURPHY'S RULES
column in Pyramid Magazine pointed out that a Castle Falkenstein character
with good enough science skills can finish creating the simpler chemical
formulations weeks before he starts...

ObTrav:  Between high law levels and religious/cultural taboos, almost any
substance is illegal and/or controlled on some world.  Imagine getting
busted for possession of refined sugar.


- --------------
Kelly St.Clair   "The Jigglypuff's trilling seems to have a 
kellys@efn.org    tranquilizing effect on the human nervous system.
                  Fortunately, I am... immune..."
                            -- Mr. Spock, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:03:53 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Copyright Issues with SJG

Dear Folks -

Keith, thanks for your comprehensive response to my query. It clarifies a
number of issues in regards to how SJG views things (I have read a couple
of your policies, but still had some q's!).

>An important thing to remember, is that the Line Editor sets
>the parameters for future developments.

I hadn't thought that the Ed. probably directed how submissions should be
sent! Doh! (The Editor's word is Law, L-A-W "Law", after all.)

>That is great that IG felt that way, however considering various legal
>issues that have cropped up involving SJ Games and also the entire
>publishing industry in relation to the Internet, it isn't as cut and dried
>as that.

It _was_ also a few years ago, I guess... and they were not around long
enough to hit any such problems?

>For us, it is the ideal avenue for discussion as the
>Editor, Line Editor, Author and everyone from SJ Games is paying
>attention to THAT dissusion group, rather than the TML mailing list.

This is that answer I expected to the next question:

>>Is this the official SJG position: "We already have a forum, so we don't
>>need to reference the TML, thank you"?
>
>It has nothing to do with the TML.  We would treat any submission
>that was pulled from rec.games.frp.gurps the exact same way.

Sorry, upon re-reading my question it sounds a bit petulant - I actually
meant "any online source other than our playtest area". Your reply has
answered that, and given a full explanation to boot.

Thanks for your excellent response! (BTW, can I publish this on my website
as "SJG's Official Position" - now that it's in the public domain, of
course!!! ;-) yes, that's only a slight dig! ;-) ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:58:21 +1000
From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE Army Missions

Conscription never came to the Australian military until Vietnam.  Then,
after Vietnam, it was policy that Australian troops would not be used in any
overseas conflict other than "peace keeping operations." (although I believe
there was a caveat mentioning something to the effect of "until a period of
at least 50-years").  This was slightly broken when the RAN sent warships in
support of her American Allies and the Multi-national forces in the Middle
East against Sadam.  "Slightly broken" in the sense that Australia (as far
as the public are concerned) never took part in any actual fighting.
The Australian Armed Forces are basically a reactionary force in defence of
our home shores (and the most highly trained of these being north ender
reservists!).  Should the <insert possible Asian antagonists here> invade
this wide brown land, the concept is to defend and hold (if not expulsion of
the enemy) until our dear friends and allies, the Americans, come and help
us out logistically and with manpower as required.
Okay, this is the 90's (well, nearly the 22nd century), and I will admit
that this doctrine was valid in the 70's and 80's... I am not sure if it
still stands at this time, but I can find out when my mates get back <snip>
- - -- The Roc


Hey Roc, I'm pretty sure conscription was introduced in Aust for WWII;
except it was done so with muchos trickery - to whit for 'home service' etc
only. Home service just happened to start a few hundred miles above PNG
that's all (of course, it was out colony...). I can't comment on the rest
but suffice to say you're absolutely right, everything HAS changed.

And wasn't it weird to see lefties & hippies and all manner of your
traditional stock standard passive folk baying for military intervention RE:
ET. 

OB Traveller; Does the imperium manipulate the public on a vast scale (Psi
suppressions?) to make palatable otherwise non tasty pulling up of britches
and going into war mode? I can recall that the awesome Rebellion Sourcebook
(it was too!) had an intel unit of one faction employing sociological
manipulation on a scale reminiscent of Foundation. 


Michael 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:45:02 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1240

At 07:07 PM 10/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:27:36 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
>
>>Is this the official SJG position: "We already have a forum, so we don't
>>need to reference the TML, thank you"?
>
>One key difference with the Pyramid playtest site is that everyone who goes
>there has agreed to abide by a non-disclosure agreement, something that is
>not a feature of TML membership.
>
>I understood that this is as much to protect SJG from "you stole my idea"
>lawsuits as anything else. It's the same reason that many publishing
>companies have the "anything you submit becomes our property" clause in
>their submissions guidelines.  If someone publishes a whole bunch of
>designs on the TML, then SJG publishes very similar ones, that person could
>accuse SJG of stealing their work. If the author (in this case Chris)
>hasn't read the messages then theft hasn't occured (just plain old
>simultaneous discovery).  Which is why Chris won't be reading the starship
>messages here.

Accurate, cleanly written, to the point, and probably makes more sense than
my post.


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1241
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